Goto the e-book: The Israel Truth (TV Interview)
Interview with Pastor F.W.C. Neser on 5/6/03:
Broadcasted on 22 June 2003 13h30 “Crux” TV 1.
“Our Heavenly Father, We come to Thee in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and we ask for Thy guidance. We believe Lord, that we live in very important times and, therefore, we pray that what shall be spoken this morning shall be for Thy Glory, and Oh God, for Thy people outside where your Word declares that “My people perish through lack of knowledge” and You say in Your Word that we shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free.
Grant, Oh Lord, that this morning we as Your humble instruments shall not fail Thee. In Jesus Name — Amen.
First of all, the word “Israel Vision” I believe is a misnomer. It should be the “Israel Truth”. Now briefly, what it is:-
We believe that God appointed a specific race through which He wants to reveal Himself to this world. When we look at this world, it is not a pretty picture. This world as it is at this moment is certainly, the way I see it, NOT to the Glory of God. There is hatred, war, terrorism, and sickness. Terrible sicknesses in spite of our wonderful medical knowledge; - and the world is getting sicker every day. We build bigger hospitals and there are more diseases. We are still battling with “Aids” and now with “Sars” and so it goes on. That is not the way God made this world. When He made it and looked at it He saw that it was very good. God never intended that there should be disease, hatred, murder and whatever.
He has given man a free will. He made us sovereign beings. Therefore, if you want to exercise your free will and your sovereignty, you just also take the responsibility, because with each privilege there is an equal weight of responsibility on the other side. And now the world landed itself in a mess through disobedience.
Is God the Almighty Creator, and I asked His blessing very reverently, now going to throw His hands into the air and say, “Oh, it has been a failure!” Is He going to leave it that way? What is going to happen to this world? Are we to destroy ourselves? Because that is the way in which we are heading.
No, God has made a way!
He chose one specific person and that person’s name was Abraham. He called him from his place and said to him: “In you and your seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed”. From Abraham came Isaac and from Isaac came Jacob. These promises and commitments were passed on from the one to the other. Then God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (and this is very important) an everlasting, irrevocable and unchangeable, covenant.
He gave them His laws and He said to them “If you live according to these laws all shall be well with you. There shall be no sickness, no disease, either among your cattle or your flocks and there shall be no pests in your crops and no sickness — if you obey My voice”.
Through Jacob came the twelve tribes and these twelve tribes were sent into the world. I can see it, like a beam of light as it pierces through the darkness as in a dark room, showing up the dust.
Then He said to them “Now live according to My laws so that the world can seethat you are a different people. No diseases; no wars; no want; no famine at all, whereas on the outside the other nations will suffer all these things. Then the Bible makes a broad distinction which is very important — that is that God calls Himself the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the people with whom He made this covenant.
He does not call Himself the God of any other Group of Nations, but only of this nation with whom He made an everlasting covenant. God said that when He blessed them, these other nations would come to them. That is My intention; they will notice that you are a different people; that all your circumstances are different.
They will come and ask you - “Why?”
And you will be able to say: “Because our God is the Living God!
Your gods are idols: Tree stumps, stones, the sun, the moon and stars.
Our God made all those things, which you worship. They have no life in themselves. I am the only one who has Life in Myself! By that way, if those people will believe, they will also come to Me. In that way the world will be saved, it will be redeemed.
Unfortunately this nation also disobeyed God. They followed “the ways of the heathen”, as the Bible calls it, instead of the way of God. They then, of course, started to suffer the same consequences. The Bible says the wages of sin is death. I might also add this: -
The Bible says that the heavens declare the Handiwork of God.
The only way we as humans can see and observe perfection is in God’s whole universe, as we look up to the skies. The sun for instance rises and sets at the same time it did hundreds and thousands of years ago — and will continue to do so. So also the moon and the stars; the tides of the oceans, because in those, man’s hand had not been able to interfere. That is the only perfection which we can still observe.
Question 2: . What is the Israel vision and belief of today?
I am perhaps going about it the long way. I’m coming to that.
Man is the crown of God’s creation. This is how God started with me as a little boy. I loved the Bible ever since I was a child and I could see these things. I’m not blowing my own trumpet — I am very imperfect. Anyway I have a very sensitive spirit. I feel things deeply and I want the answers.
We are the crown of God’s creation, we should, as man, reflect the glory of God even more than the sun and the moon and the stars. What went wrong? It went wrong because God gave us a free will and we decided to disobey. So God came along and He chose Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the twelve tribes after that, and this responsibility was passed on to them, to no other nation only to this nation, called to be a servant race, dedicated to service. First of all to show forth the glory of God and secondly, for the redemption of man-kind.
From out of this race was to come the Redeemer, the Lord Jesus Christ. Who was actually promised to Eve just after the fall. God said it would be her Seed that would bruise the Serpent’s head. It was committed to this race to carry and to transmit also that Seed which was to come in the fullness of time, viz. Jesus Christ.
So this nation was disobedient, split up into two and this is where the Israel Truth comes in. The one was called the “House of Judah”, which included the Benjamites and the other ten tribes were called the “House of Israel”. They both were dis-obedient and both went into captivity. BUT GOD DID NOT WITHDRAW HIS COVENANT FROM THEM. He was not going to redeem the world through any other race.
Now we in the “Israel Truth”, believe that we can prove (as in my book “The Lost Ten Tribes”) from archeology, from history and mostly from the evidence of the Bible itself, that the Anglo Saxon, Celtic, Germanic and kindred people, i.e. the white people that settled in Western and North Western Europe, are the literal descendants of those ten tribes called “The Lost Ten Tribes”.
God has not recalled His Covenant and as a child I asked myself: “Where are these people? God made and EVERLASTING COVENANT with them, and if God has broken that Covenant with them, how can I believe in a God like that? Which of all the races are they today? Black? Yellow? White?”
Who were they in the days of the Bible? They could not just have disappeared; by what other names are they called? The white people were the only people to carry the Christian faith — who sent out missionaries and printed all the Bibles. All our witnessing to a living God originated with the white people, and who are they? The “Israel Truth” revealed and we believe, that we are that people who carry that responsibility.
Question 3: Who first spoke to you about this message, and who gave the cross to you?
I was born in 1918 right at the end of the First World War Soon after that in 1929 came the big financial crash; the big Depression that you young people can only read about. There simply was no money. My father was a farmer and a sickly man and most of our people were poor. The war had just ended and we also had the Rebellion of 1914 which impoverished especially the Afrikaner even more. I felt this very keenly and I read the Bible which said God had promised prosperity, health, wealth and well being in every respect and all that we could see around us was misery. I just want to mention that in the Free State we had not even heard the word “pollution” and the air there was very clear.
On a full Moon night you could read your Bible by moonlight. The moon looked as majestic as it sailed through the sky. It makes such a vivid impression, it almost awes you, it is so beautiful. As a little boy I took my father by the hand and told him “Daddy, just come and look how perfect it is!” And the moon rises and sets at fixed times which you can calculate. Our old wall clock, when it stopped, was reset by the rise and set of the sun because we had these tables by which the correct time could be calculated according to fixed laws. And the heavens obey God’s laws perfectly! That is why they are such a demonstration of the glory of God. And look at how the world is struggling.
Soon after 1929, when I was 11 years old, — an eleven year old child can think quite deeply -came the big drought of 1933 — which you younger generation can only read about. It was a dreadful time for our Country — on which I shall not enlarge — but it had tremendous political consequences. United Party, Nationalist Party and all these things had their reflections on our politics. All these things and the struggle between white and black can be seen in its integrated setting. It will speak to you. And where shall we find the answers? Only in God’s word -- and that is how God spoke to me.
No. I will tell you where the difference comes in. God’s covenant is with the real Israel, as I explained to you. Pardon me if it might sound impertinent, but our people are perishing through a lack of knowledge and I hold the church largely responsible who should teach the people God’s word. And because we have lost God’s calling and Covenant with Israel, we have missed half the truth of the Bible. Because, the church makes the “church” the new Israel. They say: “We are now God’s Covenant People.”
That is not true and they cannot show me a single Scripture to prove that. Your being “born again” does not change your nationality. An Englishman remains an Englishman; a German a German; and a Zulu remains a Zulu. No, the real church, the Ekklesia - that is what we call ourselves - is the Body of Christ. The church are His elected people who have truly answered His call.
Ekklesia is the Greek word for Church. Wherever you read the word “church” in our Bibles, it is derived from the Greek word “Ekklesia”.
Now “Ekklesia” is made up of two words:
The one is “Ek” and the other “Kaleo”.
“Ek” means “out of”, and “Kaleo” means to “call together”.
The real church are those called together out of the world. Today the word “church” has become a very general term, but “church” has a very special meaning.
But so far the whole discourse has revolved around spiritual aspects such as God’s calling and showing forth the glory of God. That is the other point and I’m glad that you mentioned it. There also the church has gone wrong. At this very point their preaching deviated and became what I call, “homocentric” whereas it should be “theo centric”. In a nutshell the Gospel preaching of today pivots on “How can I be saved? How can I get to heaven? How can I restore my marriage? How can I resolve my financial problems? I...I... man...man...!”
I grew up in the Dutch Reformed Church and I praise God for what I learnt there. There are many wonderful things in the church in general. I do not decry that at all. But it is not sufficient. Where is the GLORY OF GOD? That is what perplexed me as a child. I believe I got the answer from God — it could not have come through natural talents. God must have spoken to me. I said: “Lord, I do not see Your Glory anywhere? The heavens declare your glory, but we, as man, in our Government —whatever political philosophy we might embrace, and in our church preaching — we do not see the GLORY of God. The world is systematically heading for destruction and judging by the preaching, God is completely oblivious of it. Their sole target seems to be how to get us into Heaven! However, the MAIN PURPOSE of the Bible is to GLORIFY GOD!
The Westminster Confession, which is the Confession of most of the mainstream churches, is to “Glorify God and to enjoy Him forever”.
But they do not live up to that Confession. The world is not taught how to govern itself - it is left to political parties to their philosophies: Communism, Capitalism, Nazism and whatever it may be. That is how man HIMSELF decided to govern the world and he is leading it to destruction. Even by our wonderful democracy and capitalism.
Now this might touch some tender nerve, but we are speaking here for the sake of the truth. Even our much lauded Democracy is not God’s system. God never intended the majority, or we might even call it “the mob” to rule. He always called the small group; the individual, to whom He gave the knowledge, the capacity and the ability to lead and show the way. The majority has never led mankind in the right direction. That is the difference between the “Israel Vision” and the “churches” view.
In the churches you very seldom hear a sermon taken from the Prophets. When last did you hear your Minister preach from the Prophets? For all intents and purposes the Prophets could be torn out of your Bibles, they are simply bypassed. Yet, if you look at the Prophets, you will find that there are more prophecies on the second coming of Christ than in the New Testament. The Prophets had a glorious vision of the future and of our present times. I believe that if we would assess this critical time of world history, we shall divine tremendous events coming to pass soon.
Question 7: Do you believe that you are a mouthpiece of God
As the Prophets were the mouthpiece of God -- do you believe that you are the mouthpiece of God for today? The Prophets of the Old Testament, they were speaking on God’s behalf. Do you believe that of yourself? That you are a mouthpiece of God?
I do not claim anything for myself. God had his Prophets in the Bible and what they said was enough. We ought to preach them faithfully.
More or less round about the year l85O. There were certain people, especially in England, who saw that the British people were fulfilling God’s promises for the latter days made to Israel. They were a Christian people; they were a missionary people; they were spreading the Gospel to the four corners of the world; they were printing the Bibles and all His literature. If you go to Foreign Fields and look at the tombstones of those who died for the Gospel, you will find that most are from the English speaking world; a few German, a few Dutch, but mostly English people. It was also the English speaking people who took civilization all over the world. That is where it started. Like anything else you make a lot of mistakes and we still make mistakes. If you do not want to make a mistake then don’t do anything!
Question 9: Why is this Israel Vision so exclusive?
Because God chose a special people. This commission wasn’t given to any other people. Isaiah says: “This people have I formed for my glory. They shall show forth My praise.” Now today you can go and ask anybody -- our black people or which ever people you will: “From whom have you heard of the Lord Jesus Christ and that there is a God in Heaven -- the Creator of Heaven and Earth?” From the White people. Therefore, I say, even to a black person: “If you have been drawn to this Gospel, you must thank God for the White man. And if you really see the Truth, you will become my partner in preserving the identity of the White man and not destroy it. Because, if there had not been any white man you would not have heard the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. If this world should last for generations to come and the White man is taken out of the world, the Gospel will die with him because he has been ordained to be God’s instrument to show forth His Glory.
What would your reaction be to Afrikaner, or white people, who would oppose the Israel Vision?
Question 11: Do you believe that they are wrong?
So what do you think that our point of reference as Christians should be for wrong or right? What should we use e.g. to choose between wrong and right?
The Truth: God’s Word. Jesus said “You will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free”. Jesus said in the High Priestly prayer in John 17: “Thy Word is Truth” and of this I can speak from experience. There are all kinds of books in my library -- there are books that can take you to hell! That is how I searched and I have searched everywhere. I battled for a long time because if you are in earnest you want to know the TRUTH. People generally ask “Who is right?” A person should not ask “Who is right?” but “What is right?” and there is invariably only ONE right way.
Jesus said: “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by Me.” And as Jesus came to glorify the Father on earth, so He has left it to us, through the power of the Holy Spirit to glorify Him.
I see one of your questions – “If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto Me”. You probably know the little chorus:
“Lift Jesus higher,
Lift Jesus higher,
lift Him up for the world to see”.
Question 12: In what respect?
In every respect! God governs every phase of life. You can be as spiritual as you like. You can sing Hallelujahs and have wonderful sessions of worshipping God, but you have to have food to eat. Food has to be acquired in one way or another and God has shown us the laws. The Bible tells us how to till our soil; how to raise our crops, but we have become so “Spiritual” I could almost say “We are no earthly good!”
God tells us what to eat. What kind of food to eat and what kind of food not to eat. I might be treading on some people’s toes, but we are here to speak the truth. The Bible, for instance, strictly forbids the eating of pork and anything derived from the pig. It is made to be a scavenger and its digestive system differs totally from that of clean animals. Nothing whatever derived from the pig should be eaten. If you eat it, you will in the long run suffer the consequences. Many of our illnesses originate from our disobedience of God’s dietary laws. God’s laws cover every aspect of our lives.
Question13: Coming back to “The Lost Ten Tribes”.
Who are they and where are they now?
As mentioned before, they are in Europe. The Anglo Saxon, Celtic and kindred people and Germanic. Roughly speaking the White peoples. Now, I know we have failed the Lord in many respects. It makes me very sad and this “Israel Truth” makes me very humble because it makes me realize my tremendous responsibility. God chose to have a witness on earth and the Lord said: “You have I formed for Myself. You must show forth My praise”. God does not change. The Gifts and calling of God are without repentance according to the Bible. God has called someone, with tremendous implications for you and me. Personally also - if God has called you and you do not answer that calling, you will be held responsible for it. God does not relish in that, but God must always be consistent. If God had to vacillate between choices, we would be absolutely confounded.
Question 14: These tribes that are lost, are they part of Israel as well?
Well, they are not “lost”. With regard to this the Church also fell into error. However, if you consult Archeology and History and the Bible itself, you will discover that they are not lost. When these Ten Tribes were taken into captivity by Assyria, they were deported beyond the Euphrates and Tigris rivers where they were placed in Halah, Habor and the cities of the Medes. It is from there, and this is significant, that they never returned. The Assyrians changed their name when they took them captive and they became “lost” to history. Nevertheless, they could never become lost to God because He had an everlasting Covenant with them.
If God is capable of changing an everlasting covenant -- how could we trust and serve such a God? If He then promises me everlasting life in the Lord Jesus and He is not bound to keep His word -- what assurance can I have of my eternal destiny? No, God is immutable!. He says: “I am the Lord, I change not (Malachi 3:6). There-fore, ye sons of Jacob are not consumed”.
We have the same Covenant, the same Commission and the same responsibility and unless we awake to our calling as a Western Nation considered to be the descendants of those “Lost Tribes”, there is no hope for the World, because that is the only way God intends to save the world. This nation must accept their Redeemer; crown Him as their King — Hallelujah! and show the world the glory of God.
Question 15: Where do other Nationalities fit into the picture
Now we know about the “Lost Tribes”. What about the other Nationalities? Where do they fit into the picture?
God has made provision for His whole Creation. I do not know exactly how, but I do know He is a just God. What is the focus today? The Western nations are looking away from themselves, focusing on missionary work in the heathen world. These other nations might even consider it impertinence, asking: “You White people want to evangelize us? But you are worse than we are”. I am ashamed of the White decadence. We ought to walk in majesty. We excel in knowledge to be servants. Now take any of our gifted people -- advocate, doctor or whatever who abuses his gift and feels superior. He now thinks: “Well, I’m a big Doctor now”. He knows what he is talking about and the poor patient has no say in the matter. But if that doctor does not do his work properly and also treat his patient with respect, he is more worthy of shame than the less gifted person.
The more God has given you, the more you are held responsible for, which applies especially to the White people. We are a gifted people. Others might disagree, but where does your know-how come from? It comes from the White people. The White people developed Countries. When the White man came to this country (it may offend our black people - but I say it in a good spirit) they did not even have the wheel. We built the Railways -- alright, with their labour but we had to teach and supervise them. We built the telegraph lines and whatever developments you can think of. I assert for instance, that if you. take the White man out of Africa, the consequences would be the same as taking the engine out of’ your motor car. The white man is the motivating force and as such should be assisted and respected. But we ourselves are oblivious to what I am saying this morning, that is why we do not live up to our responsibility.
Question 16: What does it actually mean to be “born again”?
You spoke about being “born again”, and mentioned earlier, that it was a spiritual thing; but the nationality of that person does not change; the race does not change. What does it actually mean to be “born again”?
To be “born again”? Well, the Bible says: “If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away, they have all become new”. If I want to live up to its full implication, it means, first of all, that I shall now seek the Glory of God more than ever before, before I shall seek to present to the world a full revelation of the purpose and intent of the Most High and, bear in mind where our starting point is.
Our starting point was when God made this earth. God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good. Now, isn’t God going to restore everything? The Bible speaks of the restoration of ALL things. The picture will therefore not be complete until the earth has been restored to its Edenic glory where every curse be removed and the last enemy -- death -- will be destroyed. Only then shall this world start functioning according to God’s original intent. Through his disobedience man caused this grievous disruption of God’s plan.
One of the main implications therefore is that every time you and I are disobedient we interrupt the continuity of God’s purpose. Whatever it may be, it is part of the whole disobedience which spoilt God’s purpose.
Question 17: Can you be a true son or daughter of God?
So, can you be a true son or daughter of God even if you are not a part of the Israel Truth or of His people?
We cannot prescribe to God. But as I see it, God had to start somewhere and He started with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and made a Covenant. He made His Covenant with these specific people. When we, as God’s Israel people come into our own, only then shall we fulfill the purpose of God and God will also fulfill His part. There are many interrelated matters which will unfortunately, take up too much time, such as the tares among the wheat.
I leave those things which, to me, are still in the misty areas, to God. God demon-strated His love for us by sacrificing his Son on the cross for us. Because He loves us we can trust Him to fulfill His purpose for every man in His own way, which will be “safe” for all of us.
Question 18: How & when will these “Lost Tribes” get to their Promised Land.
Yes. The Bible is very explicit on that matter. It tells us that God will take His Israel people back to the land of their Fathers. Today we see that the Jews are claiming that promise, which is another distressful event.
The name Jew is derived from Judah (fourth son of Jacob) who, together with the Tribe of Benjamin, became known as the “House of Judah”, as distinct from the other Ten Tribes who became known as the “House of Israel”. But in the course of time they absorbed many foreign elements. So much so, that, according to Jewish Authorities themselves, that 9/10th of present day Jewry hasn’t got a drop of Israel blood in their veins.
Now this is one of the tremendous sparking points of the world situation at the present time when the Israeli question of Palestine between the Jews vs Arabs is a very sensitive point. One could almost say it sparked the past war in Iraq. By their own admission Mr. Bush attacked Iraq because they were a threat to Israel or, to be precise, to those people at present in Israel, whom I do not call “Israelites” because they are not entitled to the name “Israel”. Only the “Ten Tribes” are entitled to that name.
When Jacob blessed the sons of Joseph (remember he crossed his hands?) he said: “Let MY NAME be named on THEM. At Jabok Jacob’s name was changed to ISRAEL. The Church in general simply ignores these things, and this is the corner stone of our foundation.
You seem to disapprove of the Jews and their claim.
Jesus wasn’t a Jew. Jesus was the Son of God. You derive your nationality from your father. And Jesus had no earthly father. On that ground He wasn’t a Jew. Secondly, the “House of Judah” also had another subdivision which is called the House of David. David was a separate branch and Jesus came from the House and lineage of David.
Remember, He was both God and Man. As far as His humanity is concerned, He came from the Line of David. David wasn’t a Jew either. I know this sounds strange, but just read your Bible and you will see. Abraham wasn’t a Jew; Isaac wasn’t a Jew. The Israelites in Egypt were not Jews. Yet preachers glibly refer to the deliverance of the Jews from the bondage in Egypt. There were no Jews in Egypt. According to the Bible they came later. These are vital facts to be understood.
Question 21: But Jesus grew up in a Jewish family.
That became His identity nationality wise. His parents and His brothers and sisters followed the Jewish customs required of them as from that nationality. He got all that He learnt from them -- His schooling and everything.
Question 22: How can you discount the identity and schooling?
He went untothe Temple and attended their school. He spoke their language. His identity was in that nationality. So how can you discount all of that?
No, I do not discount those things. They are not important. Of importance is that He came to fulfill the will of the Father. He said to His mother: “Do you not know that I have to be about the things of My Father?”
Now the following is a sensitive point but the Bible is sensitive and we have to be sensible about these things. I cannot help but quote from the Bible itself: “You are of your father, the Devil” and He called them “Ye, generation of vipers”. In my sermons I preach that we should always learn from Jesus and follow His example. He was never derogatory for the sake of belittling, wilfully or intentionally. Appalling as it might sound, He called the Pharisees “You generation of vipers; you are of your father the devil!” but it was only the truth. Today there is still a generation of vipers on earth and you will find it in Jewry. I know this is dynamite -- but it is the word of God.
Question 23: How important is race in God’s eyes?
Very important. All along, it should have been evident in what I said. If there is no Israel race -- there is no Gospel. Scan the past ages. Who were the nations who accepted the Gospel of the Lord Jesus? If, for instance, you take the Reformation after Martin Luther, it is interesting to note where the Reformation took root. In Western Europe. Not even in Southern Europe. Because the Mediterranean Alpine people are not pure Israel. Thus they did not accept it and remained Roman Catholic; this will also cause some waves! Or even storms. But it is true! It took root in Western Europe in 1517. Then, when the Reformation took place in England and North Western Europe the, the Gospel spread and Missionaries were sent out. They were given a new spark to fulfill their commission to the Glory of God. Their Missionaries were sent to Africa, China and all over. Many of them paid with their lives for it. It was not without significance. It had tremendous consequences, which should be seen in its broad context.
Question 24: Who is your neighbour?
Can you comment on “You as Christians must love your neighbours”. Who then is your neighbour?
It’s a good question. We are so inclined to shape our views and our terminology according to what we see and experience. But there is only one sure and true guide and that is the Bible. Otherwise, if you deviate from that path, you fall into error. If you turn off the main road you land into a donga and pitfalls. So you must stick to the main road. According to the Bible your neighbour is the one like yourself. Perhaps I should just read you that Scripture.
Lev. 19:18. “Thou shall not avenge nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. I am the Lord.”
I must love the one like myself.
That is what it says. However, it does not exclude any other sentiment of benevolence because the Bible does not prescribe hatred or vengeance anywhere. The Lord says that the vengeance is Mine. Only God can take vengeance because He alone is able to judge truly. None of us should ever revenge ourselves. So this also has been distorted, applied with wrong intent. But for the lack of time I can quote you many relevant Scriptures.
Question 25: What and where is the Promised Land?
The Promised Land -- what is it that is going to be repossessed by the “Lost Ten Tribes”? And where is it?
Did you read that “World Affairs No 2”, of mine? The Promised Land is the area from Egypt to the Euphrates River from West to East and from Egypt to where modern Turkey is. That whole area has been promised to Israel. That is also going to be the centre of Government of the whole World when Jesus comes back. He will gather Israel. He will send out his Angels to gather his elect from the four corners of the earth. This also needs to be qualified.
It is preached generally that the elect are ALL the children of God -- which is a misconception. There is only one group of people called the Elect or Chosen of God, and that is Israel! I realize that will cause anger, but that is the Word of God. It cannot be overemphasized that the election of Israel is not favouritism - it is wholly to be servants of God on this earth. There are “too many Chiefs and too few Indians” in this world. We need to be servants to be of any significance.
Jesus said: “I have not come to be ministered unto, but to minister and to give My Life a ransom for many”.
This Israel nation is a servant nation. However, for Israel to perform its office of being God’s servant it should also not be hampered nor hindered. They need certain talents; certain qualifications and certain possessions. In view of this, God gave them these possessions and provided them with the expertise.
All our inventions originated from the Western nations. The intention was not to make them per sé the pre-eminent masters of this World for their own sake, but for the benefit of the world and for God’s glory. God could not condone a world where, on the one hand there is affluence and plenty, but on the other hand there is starvation and misery. So Israel is to be that area from the Euphrates to Egypt.
Now, as I have said (refer to that World Affairs of mine), the Jews know it and they claim that they are entitled to it according to the Word of God. However, according to the Word of God they are not entitled to it because they are not the entire Israel. Even if every Jew were a pure Israelite, they represent only two of the twelve tribes. (That we have authority for -- ref. my book “The Ten Tribes of Israel”). Jewry, according to their highest authorities, consists only of those two tribes. A most significant point is that when the Jews said: “Away with Jesus! Away with Him! Crucify Him! We have no other king but Caesar -- Let His blood be upon us and our children! The TEN TRIBES WERE NOT THERE, they were gone! Deported beyond the Euphrates River. They cannot be held responsible for those words. That is an awesome point to consider.
Question 26: What do you think the main problem is as to where Israel is now?
The main challenge facing us is to return to our God. To become truly converted. Let us forget about the rest of the World and consider our White people. Do you think we are truly saved? Really converted, as we consider ourselves as Christian people? Look at the way we live. Jesus said: “By your fruit you shall be known”. He also said: “Let your light so shine before men that they might see your good works and glorify you Father which is in Heaven”.
To my shame I have to admit that we White people are not a testimony to our God at all. One cannot say to the other nations -- whether black, yellow or whatever – ““Look at the white people and follow their example and your lives will change”. We cannot say that.
Question 27: Do you consider other nations as well?
I do not want to complain, but you do not consider other nations as well in that geographical location. Is it only going to be the lost Israel tribes and no other nations?
God’s TRUE Israel people. By that time both Houses will have been united -- all true Israelites from Jewry embodies many true Israelites. I know this will arouse anger but when you look at the Jew, you see two types. The one is a self-assured, arrogant type, stocky build. The other type is a real gentleman, usually more slenderly built and fair of complexion. This is the true Israelite. He looks like the Western nations. They will also be saved because that is the other great event which we are looking forward to - the conversion of the Jew. The real Jew still has to accept Jesus as his Messiah. Jewry is still waiting for the Messiah to come. But He has come. He died for them as well. After their acceptance of Him they will be joined together, by that time Jesus will come.
This world will be in such a state of conflict that Jesus says in Matt. 24: “There shall be great tribulation. Except those days be shortened NO flesh shall be saved. For the elects’ sake (that is for Israel’s sake) they shall be shortened”. Then both of them will be joined together according to Ezek. 37, are the two sticks which will then be joined together. They will be filled with the Holy Spirit and the world will see a nation as has never existed before -- a whole people filled with the Holy Spirit -- with Jesusthe returned Christ, as their King in the midst of them. I believe He will make his Headquarters in the New Jerusalem and that area will be the heart and the centre of his Government, from whence He will govern the rest of the World.
Then, according to Isaiah Chapter 2, and Micah Chapter 4, the World will be taught the ways of the Lord. What this World needs is an authoritative body with real authority but with absolute justice. As yet there has never been such an entity -- Jesus is the one, He is the Prince of Peace and of Righteousness, together with a Spirit filled Israel (both Houses joined together). That was God’s original intention when He called Abraham. Then eventually, after the World has taken this full circle through our failures and tears and through our disappointments and when our hearts are changed, we will become God’s instruments on this Earth for the World’s blessing and for the Glory of God!
Now the Promised Land. What about the other Nationalities already in that area? What will happen to all the people there that are not part of the real Israel?
In this tremendous Holocaust which is going to end the one phase and initiate the other they will be destroyed and the rest will be deported to the lands of their origin. There they will be ruled by Christ and those who shall rule with Him, with a rod of iron. They will be taught justice by the true Government of God. This is the only way in which all tears will be wiped from our eyes. God will have to come and take full control of the whole world. Jesus called the Devil the prince of this world. He said: “In this world (this world order) ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world”. Praise God!
What do you think of De Wet Kritzinger and Eddie von Maltitz? De Wet said that he is part of the Israel Vision? Is that true? What do you think of what he says?
That is one of our problems. There are so many of these people who are being grouped with us but with whom we have nothing to do. Nothing whatsoever. I don’t; even know De Wet Kritzinger. I see that he mentions the Israel message -- so there are many others. Neither do I know Eddie von Maltitz. Now I see (from what I have read in the paper-- seen him only on TV) that he is a misguided young man. It’s tragic and I feel sorry about it.
Question 30: But he basically believes in what you teach?
No, no! AS I said this morning before we started: “I hear that here in Pretoria alone there are about 26 different Israel Groups”.
Question 31: Are they affiliated with you?
No, not at all. I don’t want anything to do with them. These people propagate violence and this is not a case for violence because the Lord says: “Not by might nor by power -- but by My Spirit”. This aspiration of purely man, of whatever nationality or political views, I must warn you, is not going to be achieved, whatever you are aiming at or standing for. It is too big for us. God alone can settle the affairs of this World.
Question 32: Do you have innocent blood on your hands?
Even if you believe in peace and may preach peace and someone who basically believes in what you teach -- even though perhaps distorting it-- errs, how would you answer to an accusation of having innocent blood on your hands?
No one can accuse me of having innocent blood on my hands if I preach the truth. God’s word IS the truth. I preach it with no other intent. Not to further any political purpose or any nationality. I teach what God says and to me it is right and beautiful. His intentions are beautiful because it is to save the world from itself. If we carry on the way we are at the moment I can see that we are sitting on a powder keg — however peaceable it may sound.
Emotions are being worked up, especially by the word “RACISM”. It’s almost like a swear word and sounds like the hissing of a serpent, so ominous and threatening. I believe that is very dangerous. And if anybody should intercede, especially for a white man, it is racism. Alright, there is also misguided politics in that, I admit. However, the true racial question as we have it in the Bible is a matter of service. The White man is called to serve God and to serve humanity. Also, the white man must come into the right place, at which he is not at the moment. However, things to happen in the very near future are going to compel it.
How would you explain all these different groupings of people who call themselves “Israel Vision”?
I am glad that you ask that. If you have really understood what I have said thus far you will realize that my vision lends itself to the conservative point of view. That it might excite the aspirations of people who e.g. strive for a ‘Volksstaat’ and the supremacy of the Afrikaner, etc. I admit it could be construed in that way. Unfortunately, there have been many who joined my group without me realizing it. They caused us a lot of trouble but, Thank God, they left us, saying I am too liberal. But they did not understand.
You must also understand that the White people — it was a bitter pill for them and for us to swallow to now be governed by a black government, and to be kicked out, as it were, out of the seat of government. It has not been an easy thing to adapt to. Now, I told myself to avoid politics in this interview as much as I could. But things are not right under this Government either and it will not come right under any other Government than God’s own. Even the White Government didn’t really acknowledge the Government of God in our affairs. We didn’t ask His guidance. I ask people how would they govern the Country if they had been the President? Who solved our many complicated problems? I say to you, neither you nor I would have been able to do it in our own strength. But we are too proud, too uninformed to go on our knees asking the Lord to come and do it for us, guiding us. That is what Moses did. He governed the Israel people as God directed him to do. Throughout Israel’s history, whenever they had a King who really submitted himself to God, it went well with Israel. However, the moment he departed from the Lord and went after other gods, Israel declined. It is still the same today. The Bible “is the light unto my path and the lamp unto my foot”.
Eventually, will it be black people, Chinese, the lot? Who have now spiritually become the chosen children of God?
I leave that to the Lord. Ever since I was a child I saw these things and, I don’t know if you know the Afrikaans word “Bybel stryd”. Some people go off their heads when they cannot understand it. I had many such questions. Many of the questions you asked me this morning I wrestled with for many years. Thus, for instance, like many other texts, God told me to read Deut. 29:29. It says: “The secret things belong to the Lord and the things that are revealed belong to you and your children”. So, when I came to a point like that, I left it to the Lord. God is Just, God is Fair, God is Love and God has His chosen race and He will not depart from it.
But what is God’s purpose? God’s purpose is the restoration of ALL things for His own Glory. God cannot fail. It does not matter about the races; how they originated in the first place. That is a vast subject all on its own. God has everything under control. Otherwise, with all reverence He has made a hash of all things. He will restore everything. Those things do not worry me. It’s like that in everything — your job as well. Start with essentials, first things first. Get Israel into the place God has called her for and by that time I believe we will have the enlightened mind and spirit to answer the question which you first asked me.
Question 36: It does matter whether you can go to heaven or not?
You say things like that it doesn’t matter, you leave it to God. But surely a black man or man of any colour to them surely it does matter whether they can go to heaven or not?
What I say and I know this will be to the displeasure of my brothers and sisters who left me because of these views. I say that if a black man comes to me, you know there is a lot of falsity in religion - but if he is genuine -- now you know the Spirit also witnesses to these things — and if I see that he is genuine and sincere, then I say to him: “Black man, thank God that you have felt and heard the call of God, because most of your people don’t.”
End of interview.